[Alexdur85]

A friend of mine in the Mom's group I am in has been doing Love and Logic and loves it. I've started trying it with Emily and it has been great!

If anyone doesn't know what it is you can check out their website or facebook page...

Love and Logic - Helping Parents and Teachers Raise Responsible Kids

You can find out about love and logic here for parents. They also have ones for teachers...

What is Love and Logic

[Masquerade]

I just found this information as well. I work in a school for students with severe emotional disabilities, and we use strategies to help improve behavior choices.

Do you think this is reasonable for this purpose??

[Alexdur85]

Originally Posted by Masquerade

I just found this information as well. I work in a school for students with severe emotional disabilities, and we use strategies to help improve behavior choices.

Do you think this is reasonable for this purpose??

Yes! I think this can help with any aspect of teaching. I'm still learning about it. But I enjoy it. I haven't yelled at Emily all day which is pretty much all I would do. How has it been working out?

[Masquerade]

I had not read it, but I think I will now.
This is confirmation that I need to use it. I'll keep you posted.

[sar1]

It looks interesting. I just requested it through the library. Thanks!

[Alexdur85]

They have a facebook too and people go on there and ask for advice. From that I've learned so much.

Here are some you tube video clips:
YouTube- Love and Logic Techniques for Toddlers
YouTube- How to Handle Kids Whining and Arguing

[McEngle]

I've got to tell you, I initially thought this was going to be some hippy dippy speshal snowflake type of thing. However, I watched the video and This is really great! I will definately be ordering this from the library.
Perhaps you should start a discussion group where we can meet and discuss this program?

[Alexdur85]

Originally Posted by McEngle

I've got to tell you, I initially thought this was going to be some hippy dippy speshal snowflake type of thing. However, I watched the video and This is really great! I will definately be ordering this from the library.
Perhaps you should start a discussion group where we can meet and discuss this program?

I'd love to discuss this with other people! Can we just discuss it here? Or is there a place to do that?

[sar1]

I've been skimming some of the links you posted. I may try this out and see what happens. We do 1-2-3 Magic, which I really do like, but I have to admit that it's just not effective for DD right now. She just acts like she doesn't care at all about being in time out and she rarely listens or changes her behavior when I start counting now. It's making me crazy and I feel like I'm being a cranky parent all the time. One of the big parts of 1-2-3 Magic is not raising your voice and showing that they're getting a reaction from you, but that is HARD to do when she's been doing the same thing over and over regardless of how many time-outs I've given her over it.

BTW - I also thought by the name it was going to be on the hippy-dippy side, but it's actually really similar to 1-2-3 Magic in concept. Guiding the child to understand that their behavior has consequences and getting them to the point of thinking about those consequences before they do something so they can make better decisions about how to behave.

[Linz]

We do Love and Logic and love it! We took a class through our hospital when DS was 18 mos. At that time we used more 1-2-3 Magic techniques with him. I agree that 1-2-3 Magic is a good companion piece to L&L. Especially before they are old enough for the L&L stuff to really work with them.

Now DS is 4 and DD is 2. We use LOTS of L&L principles, sayings, etc with them. It works great. And they are pretty well behaved kiddos.

I have a list of L&L sayings that I use. These have been tremendously effective with our kids, particularly our DS.

My favorites are:

• I love you too much to argue about this.
• I will talk to you when your voice is as calm as mine
• What should you do about that (said when DS is facing some sort of dilemma and tells me about it)
• When you whine like that it really hurts Mommy's ears OR when you whine like that Mommy can't understand what you're trying to say
• I love your imagination and stories! (said when DS is telling us something and presenting it as truth even though we both know it's not - not directly lying but telling a fabricated story about going to the movie last night or something like that)
• I really hope that works out well for you
• That's a bummer
• Your whining/fighting/crying (fill in the blank of what they're doing) is really draining my energy. What do you think you could do to give me my energy back?
• How do you suppose that might work out?
• What might happen if you keep doing that?
• Would you rather do it your way or my way first?
• I understand how you feel, but I know you can handle this.
• Thanks for sharing that. (Usually when someone is tattling)
• How sad, I hope you like the next meal better. (When they won't eat what I serve)

[esquala]

"How sad!" Is something teachers use all the time.

I need to read the L&L for teachers. I'm a long-term crisis sub, and a few weeks ago every teacher had the teaching L&L on their desk.

[Alexdur85]

So far this is the second day in a row I haven't yelled at Emily.. it feels soooo good!

I use alot of "I know, I know" when Emily whines at something, I'll tell her I love her and she is a good kid. The uh-oh song has been working really well for us. I tell her her can come back from her time out spot when she is ready to behave and she does. Last night she was throwing her art easel stuff around and I asked her to please stop. Well she threw it again so I said "uh-oh, uh-oh" and put her on the bottom stoop of the stairs. I told her when she was ready to help me clean up the mess she could come back. Of course she comes back automatically but she helped clean up (usually she could cry her head off if we had to clean up) and she so far has not done it since.. I'm still waiting because I know it won't be the last time =) I look for every opportunity to use the "uh-oh" song because it's working so well..=)

[Alexdur85]

Incase someone is skimming this thinking that this is just for toddlers and little kids it's totally not. They have ones for teenagers as well. One story that I love comes to mind:

16 year old daughter comes home after cerfew. Dad says that since she didn't obey cerfew she has to give up her keys to her car for a week. Well, the daughter hands them over and as she goes to her room she yells "That's ok, I have a spare". So for the next week she is driving the car around thinking she got away with it. One day the father gets a call from her at work "Dad, you need to come down here and take this club off my car because I have to get to work" all the dad is saying is "I know, I know, that sucks, I know".... cracks me up! It almost makes me anxious for them to grow up so I can use it on them!!

[carlajworkman]

I had never heard of this technique, but after reading and watching the links you posted- I'm going to find the book! I think my DD would react very very well with this technique! And DH and I are guilty of constantly arguing and trying to out wit her (yes...a 3 year old )

[Linz]

The thing I love so much about it is that it really makes a lot of sense. The ideas are that you want your kids to develop their own morals, values, and responsibility. So by putting stuff back in their corner you let them figure it out. And as they say in the books, the best thing that can happen is that they can fail. Because it teaches them. Especially when they're little and they fail at little things.

It can be really hard to hang back and watch them make a mistake when it's our instinct to rush in and fix things for them but it's amazing to me how confident my little guy is compared to some of his friends. Part of that I'm sure is personality. But part of that is knowing that he has been making decisions for the last couple of years and he knows that we're in the background for advice and support. He's very independent (by nature) and this has been such a good way to deal with his boundary pushing.

This winter for instance we had a some REALLY cold days. He decided he didn't want to wear a hat and gloves. Instead of battling with him or telling him "put it on now because I told you to" I said, "may I make a suggestion?". He said yes. I said "some kids don't wear it but they take it with them in case they get cold later on...does that sound like a good idea?" He said sure. And off we went and of course after we got outside he put both that hat and the gloves on. Just a small example of L&L principles that we use all the time with great success!

One of our friends is very critical of L&L because she feels like kids should just do what their parents say. I disagree completely. I don't want to always be the voice in my kids heads. Because when they're older and I'm not there they will find someone else to be their guidance system. And usually that is their peers. I would much rather they sort stuff out themselves (within reason and in an age-appropriate way) so they learn to trust themselves, be able to make decisions, and then see the consequences of the decisions they make.

I could talk all day about L&L. I just love it so much. It was recommended to me by a friend of mine who works in the juvenile justice system. Her role in the past was as a liaison between the court system and juvenile offenders. She used modified versions of L&L to deal with those kids.

If you can find any of the videos I think they are very informative. I've seen Jim Faye (one of the authors/creators of L&L) on PBS before too.

[Alexdur85]

Has anyone started reading the book? I am STILL waiting on it from the library.. there were like 10 people before me

Anyone started using it? I haven't yelled at Emily in 4 days!!! Not once!!!

[fourpack]

wow sounds very interesting! I am gonna pick it up for sure! with my 14 yr old 6 yr old and almost 3 yr old I need all the help I can get!!

[Alexdur85]

Originally Posted by fourpack

wow sounds very interesting! I am gonna pick it up for sure! with my 14 yr old 6 yr old and almost 3 yr old I need all the help I can get!!

You are very brave I really do love this technique I can't believe how angry I used to be all the time. But Emily really is reacting well to this and she actually doesn't really cry anymore when she goes into her "spot" after "uh-oh!". She listens after the first "uh-oh" which never worked with 1-2-3. I want to get her to listen to me the first time but it's nice that the first uh-oh she will react too. Works well when we are in public and I can't put her into her time out spot.

[Macchiatomom]

I had not read it, but I think I will now.

[sar1]

Originally Posted by Alexdur85

Has anyone started reading the book? I am STILL waiting on it from the library.. there were like 10 people before me

Anyone started using it? I haven't yelled at Emily in 4 days!!! Not once!!!

Just got a notice from the library today that it's available for me to pick up. But there's a waitlist so it's due back in 2 weeks and no renewal! At least I'll know if it's worth buying by then.

[carebear1969]

Oh man, I have a lot to learn. My 6 week old is a little young for this but that'll give me time to go through all the material.

[Alexdur85]

Originally Posted by carebear1969

Oh man, I have a lot to learn. My 6 week old is a little young for this but that'll give me time to go through all the material.

They said you can start it at 6 months...

[sar1]

I picked it up from the library today and am now on Page 65 of 165. Nice, fast read so far. It's interesting.

[sar1]

OK, I have some questions for anyone else familiar w/the book. Does it seem like the book is a little too optimistic about a child's behavior when using L&L? I mean, it seems like most of the scenarios are written as if the child just willingly goes along w/being sent to their room and comes out all nicey-nicey a few minutes later. There was also one situation written about a 9-month-old who threw her food or spit it out and the parent just said "oh how sad, I guess lunch is over". I get the concept, but in real life I would have been stuck w/a very hungry and crying 9-month-old until it was time for the next meal.

I have been trying to implement a lot of the techniques and some of it has been very effective. I realize that I haven't been giving DD enough credit for what she can understand and making myself crazy having to repeat myself over and over b/c I felt like she wasn't getting it the first time. I stopped repeating myself and have gone straight to the consequence part of it and she definitely does understand me the first time. Like today she didn't nap and instead played in her room, but then had a heap of toys and books all over the floor when I came in to get her. She tried to go downstairs but I said she had to clean up her toys before we go downstairs. She looked at me, then just walked away like she didn't understand. So I said "Ok, You can clean up or Mommy can clean up (she immediately interjected w/"mommy clean up") but then all of these toys are mommy's toys." I was shocked when she dove right for the pile and picked everything up.

[Alexdur85]

You may have to physically put the child in the room. If the child continues to leave then they recommend you close the door (I've heard them even say lock them in) but I personally can't do that to my kid. I understand mommy and daddy will still be there but I just couldn't turn the door knob around and lock them in. Seems cruel. so I've changed it a little. We don't do bedroom time yet, sitting on the stoop has been enough for now. But when we do the bedroom one I will put a gate up instead, if the gate is not enough then I will try something else. They said that it's even ok if they like bedroom time. The point is that mommy or daddy doesn't want the child around them when they act this way.

With the 9 month old and eating. When they are that young they said to take it away for like 30mins to an hour and then try again. Eventually they will get the point and just eat. When they are that young they do not expect you to wait until snack or meal time to try again.

I was the same way. I used to think Emily didn't understand anything I was saying.