[poshpoodle]

Maybe this thread should be moved elsewhere- as I said I am not wanting to offend people, but to bring forward what I have read and saw on the you tube video. We do all have free will, but I believe that this was spoken about in the bible- people turning to others regarding "the word". It just sent off bells and whistles- that was alarming to me as well as many others I have spoken to. It is all up to the individual to form their own opinion- I have already formed mine. I choose not to read the book because I choose not to open myself up to whatever is said. This decision is Based on what I have read in the email.

[bubbsguy]

OPRAH---OBAMA same difference.

[GrannyGodley]

Posh - please, no apologies. You did good to bring it to the attention of members of AFC. Those who are interested will appreciate your post. Those who are not will not appreciate it.

Personally, GG, stands with Posh. I want no part of any form of "New Age" teaching or doctrine. Yes, it is a belief system. It is a system that reaches into the teachings of the mystic East and blends it with "Age of Aquarious" beliefs - namely that a new age has dawned and with it's dawning we are finished with the Christian era.

Christians do not believe there is an end of the Christian era except when the Lord Jesus returns in Glory and Majesty.

So for those who are Christian in their faith and belief, I say thank you. For those who are not, then I say you are enitled to your own belief system.

[philomena83]

Originally Posted by GrannyGodley

Posh - please, no apologies. You did good to bring it to the attention of members of AFC. Those who are interested will appreciate your post. Those who are not will not appreciate it.

Personally, GG, stands with Posh. I want no part of any form of "New Age" teaching or doctrine. Yes, it is a belief system. It is a system that reaches into the teachings of the mystic East and blends it with "Age of Aquarious" beliefs - namely that a new age has dawned and with it's dawning we are finished with the Christian era.

Christians do not believe there is an end of the Christian era except when the Lord Jesus returns in Glory and Majesty.

So for those who are Christian in their faith and belief, I say thank you. For those who are not, then I say you are enitled to your own belief system.

Your wisdom speaks for itself, GG. And I completely agree that if someone doesn't believe in Christ and His teachings, that does not mean that they should feel offended if someone posts something that they do not find true. The same should be said for Christians, too. If someone posts something that we do not find to be true, there is no reason to get offended, because the post is not aimed at anyone in particular.

[A20SomethingMother]

Well, I really dont' know where I stand on this topic. I grew up in a religious family, but I am not religious anymore. I have serious problems with the Bible, but I am very open minded to the fact that every person has their own right to believe and follow in whatever religion they wish. I, personally, don't believe in God. I just don't buy it. Say what you will, but that is just how I feel. Now, like I said, I do not criticize anyone else for believing in something I just don't. But, along with that, everyone is allowed to believe in what they wish---if 2 million and some people are reading and believing whatever this is Oprah believes, then that is their choice.

I don't watch Oprah myself either. But, even if I did, I wouldn't let something like this factor into my decision making, just like I don't disown my friends or family who are religous when I'm not. I am an open person and very welcoming and understanding. If our beliefs on certain issues are different, then that's cool--there are always other things about a person that I can relate to and that factor into my decision to have them in my life other than religion.

[erp0620]

Originally Posted by bubbsguy

OPRAH---OBAMA same difference.

Could you clarify please?

[lesliec]

Posh, I am totally behind you. I spent too many years of my life blind. I was raised in an "Oprah" type family... adopting whatever beliefs made you feel good. I came to know Jesus about 4 years ago and could never question my faith. I know they say "once saved, always saved", but my belief is that if you choose to walk away, then you truly weren't there, b/c noone could walk away from something as sweet as Jesus!!!
That being said. I think Oprah does a lot of good things in the world. She gives to the needy starts lots of charities etc., but the saddest thing is that she doesn't know Jesus, and she is leading so many people astray. When she dies she is going to Hell, and that is all there is to it. People have the right to choose, God has given us all that right. She has chosen, and people have chosen to follow her.
I may get in trouble for posting this, but I am willing to stand up for what I believe. Jesus is God's perfect Love.
Thank you for this post and posting what you believe. We have the right to choose in this country and we have the right of freedom of religion, and I am so thankful that you, Posh, weren't afraid to post this.

[poshpoodle]

Originally Posted by lesliec

Posh, I am totally behind you. I spent too many years of my life blind. I was raised in an "Oprah" type family... adopting whatever beliefs made you feel good. I came to know Jesus about 4 years ago and could never question my faith. I know they say "once saved, always saved", but my belief is that if you choose to walk away, then you truly weren't there, b/c noone could walk away from something as sweet as Jesus!!!
That being said. I think Oprah does a lot of good things in the world. She gives to the needy starts lots of charities etc., but the saddest thing is that she doesn't know Jesus, and she is leading so many people astray. When she dies she is going to Hell, and that is all there is to it. People have the right to choose, God has given us all that right. She has chosen, and people have chosen to follow her.
I may get in trouble for posting this, but I am willing to stand up for what I believe. Jesus is God's perfect Love.
Thank you for this post and posting what you believe. We have the right to choose in this country and we have the right of freedom of religion, and I am so thankful that you, Posh, weren't afraid to post this.

Thank you!

[lesliec]

Oh, and in a country where 90% or so of the population considers themselves Christian, and celebrates Christmas and Easter, how can we all be so afraid to proclaim the name of Christ.
Or I guess it is just a country filled of those Oprah followers.
We all want the fun stuff, but noone wants to admit what sinners we all are.
I guess I'll get off my soap box now.

[GrannyGodley]

I am posting these links and bits of information on this topic for those interested to further pursue the subject. If you are not interested, please ignore.
From another forum:

If you haven't heard of "A Course in Miracles" or the proposed "Peace Alliance," then please pay attention. "New Age" queen Oprah Winfrey is promoting both, and it seems that what Oprah wants she gets due to her financial status and her loyal fans. Starting January 1, 2008, she began a daily feature on XM Satellite Radio featuring "A Course in Miracles"-one lesson a day. And also this year, she will have her own television network.

Marianne Williamson has picked up and run with the "Miracles" course, which was channeled to a woman back in the 1960s. In 1965 Helen Schucman heard an "inner voice" saying, "This is a course in miracles-please take note." For seven years she took spiritual dictation from a demon who said he was "Jesus." "A Course in Miracles" has now become the "New Age" bible.

Here are a few statements from the course:

* There is no sin.
* The journey to the cross should be the last "useless journey."
* Do not make the pathetic error of "clinging to the old rugged cross."

The Twisted World of Oprah and Friends - CWN

__________________
Another website post on the subject under discussion.
_____________________________
Oprah takes New Age Teachings Online - 500,000 sign up for 10 week course

The World's "Most Dangerous" Spiritual Guru: Oprah Begins 10-Week Online New Age Class

[bette]

This book and subsequent seminar are not promoting any religion. The book is about opening up your mind to experience a spiritual awakening of your own, whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. It is about letting go of egotistical and materialistic mind sets, and opening yourself up to a more rewarding life. It was written to appeal to people of all faiths. Even the most devout Christians sometimes place too much value in material things and self worth. This is a self help book, and although I myself am not a big fan of Oprah's, I think the entire world DOES need an awakening. The world is in a state of chaos, and unfortunately the Bible alone will not fix it. I wish it could, but some things DO need to change. People of all faiths need to come together to make the world a better place for future generations NOW. We have got to stop preaching how our own personal beliefs are the best, and focus on what will actually improve our world and our communication with others. There are many, many people throughout the world who do not believe in Jesus Christ, and we need to be understanding of this and not condemn them. This book and the seminar are merely trying to bridge the gap between all these religions and beliefs.

[philomena83]

Okay, I went away and thought about this issue for a little while, and here is what I think about the matter:

As humans, we are by nature social creatures. Communication and teaching is a vital part of our existence. We are not born with the capability to begin making decisions for ourselves that are to benefit us. As infants and small children, we are guided by our parents, teachers, caregivers, etc. What we are taught as small children hugely impacts who we become, and this is proof that we ALL need guidance, whether we like it or not. The need for guidance and teaching does not end, however, when we reach the age of maturity. Many adults still look to their parents for advice, and we all have someone (or something) that we look to in times of need. Some of us look to pastors, others to friends, and some to other sources, like books. It is very true that all of us have the free will to decide to whom (or to what ) we will look to when we have questions about life. None of us walks the road of life alone.

I think the point that poshpoodle touched upon (please correct me if I am wrong posh) is that Oprah is in fact a person of authority. She has gained huge popularity with the majority of Americans, and many look to her for advice on different topics. So although we are all adults who ultimately make our own choices in life, our choices are always influenced in some respect by the people that we look up to. So if Oprah is promoting a type of religion that is in fact very anti-Christian, that thought system therefore has a big impact on the people that look to her for life advice.

[KellyMarie]

I have nothing to add to the topic on hand except this~~
I think it's great that the thread is staying civil and I thank all posters for that. BUT~I would like to point out that when posts have been made about other news worthy events they wound up in the controversy corner because some of the same people defending this thread opposed the others. I would like for all topics to stay this civil, I know that probably won't always happen, but it's nice to see them stay on the public forums for all to see. Please do not reply to this one post..because it will probably wind up getting the thread moved..as a matter of fact I beg that you do not reply to my post, I just wanted to point that one thing out and ask all to think about it I follow no organized religion, I have tried them all, But I do put all my Faith in Jesus and the Holy bible and yet I was not offended by the recently "abolished" threads. Tolerance is a good thing on community boards
Thanks for being civil and thanks for not replying and thanks for understanding.

[philomena83]

Originally Posted by bette

This book and subsequent seminar are not promoting any religion. The book is about opening up your mind to experience a spiritual awakening of your own, whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. It is about letting go of egotistical and materialistic mind sets, and opening yourself up to a more rewarding life. It was written to appeal to people of all faiths. Even the most devout Christians sometimes place too much value in material things and self worth. This is a self help book, and although I myself am not a big fan of Oprah's, I think the entire world DOES need an awakening. The world is in a state of chaos, and unfortunately the Bible alone will not fix it. I wish it could, but some things DO need to change. People of all faiths need to come together to make the world a better place for future generations NOW. We have got to stop preaching how our own personal beliefs are the best, and focus on what will actually improve our world and our communication with others. There are many, many people throughout the world who do not believe in Jesus Christ, and we need to be understanding of this and not condemn them. This book and the seminar are merely trying to bridge the gap between all these religions and beliefs.

I agree very much bette that we live in hard times, and that all people, regardless of religion, should be able to come together and live peacefully. And it is true that all of us sometimes put too much emphasis on material things. I know I do. The problem is that when a belief system blatantly disagrees with tenets of the faith for Christians, we cannot accept the system, because we believe that Christ is the source of truth. There may be certain things in the book that are true, and of course we can always find truth in things, but the system as a whole can't be accepted by a Christian.

[starbasset]

"it's no surprise that Oprah would back Obama?" what does Obama have to do with it?

[tklein]

very, very well said Bette!!!!

[poshpoodle]

Philomena- You totally got what I was trying to say. I am not against Oprah as a person, but she is in the public eye and has people that love Oprah and what she stands for. She has done wonderfully amazing things for not only individuals but other countries as well. I disagree with things I have heard the book discusses. I do not want to watch Oprah anymore because I feel it is giving her more money and better enabling her to promote this book. Now I know that I will not be able to stop what she is doing, but I would rather not watch her when what she is promoting is something I personally diagree with- it is something I strongly believe in. I as a chrisitian can not be supportive of anything that I think is blasphemy to the bible, and/or Jesus Christ. It may as some of you stated not be a religion per se but it is something many many people are reading and agreeing with , myself,a s a christian am afraid that some Christians will turn away from the word of the Bible and believe some of what I have heard is some of the teachings in the book. I hope that maybe this has clarified some of my beliefs about it and where I stand. I also am glad that this thread has not gotten out of hand- I did think about this prior to posting and am thankfult o everyone for your views and opinions!

[poshpoodle]

Just for Clarity I was not the original person that made the comment about Obama- it was , however in the original posting of the email.

[bette]

Originally Posted by philomena83

I agree very much bette that we live in hard times, and that all people, regardless of religion, should be able to come together and live peacefully. And it is true that all of us sometimes put too much emphasis on material things. I know I do. The problem is that when a belief system blatantly disagrees with tenets of the faith for Christians, we cannot accept the system, because we believe that Christ is the source of truth. There may be certain things in the book that are true, and of course we can always find truth in things, but the system as a whole can't be accepted by a Christian.

I am a Christian myself, and I do understand what you are saying, but have you by chance read the book? It really does not promote a stance against Christianity. It emphasizes that each individual should follow their own beliefs , but be open to all others. The author is in fact, not a practitioner of any religion. He is all about your spiritual awakening within. He states in chapter 1, "Spirituality has nothing to do with what you believe, but everything to do with your state of consciousness." I believe this. I know many people who profess their belief in God and Jesus, quote the Bible, and so on, and yet they are some of the most judgemental people I know. Your spirituality is not the words you believe in, it is the way you act on those words. If you believe you have Jesus in your heart, as we are told to as Christians, then you must enpower yourself and trust in yourself. This is a dominant Christian belief, that we accept Him into our hearts and from then on he resides within each of us. The book says to proclaim yourself the "I Am", not because it is denouncing God or Jesus, but because if Jesus truly resides in your heart, by putting your faith in yourself and others, you are trusting in "their Jesus." Tolle states that each person should hold their own Jesus in their heart as a way to live a better life. The book uses this term since not everyone believes in the same Jesus. Some believe He was an actual man, others believe that He was more symbolic. These are both Christian beliefs. Just different ones. I just think that rushing to judgement on this matter when the great majority have not read the book is a bit premature. JMHO.

[bette]

And for the record, any TRUE Christian who turns away from the Bible to follow whatever Oprah says is true, is not a true Christian anyway. They are obviously reaching for any kind of hope they can grasp.

[philomena83]

Originally Posted by bette

I am a Christian myself, and I do understand what you are saying, but have you by chance read the book? It really does not promote a stance against Christianity. It emphasizes that each individual should follow their own beliefs , but be open to all others. The author is in fact, not a practitioner of any religion. He is all about your spiritual awakening within. He states in chapter 1, "Spirituality has nothing to do with what you believe, but everything to do with your state of consciousness." I believe this. I know many people who profess their belief in God and Jesus, quote the Bible, and so on, and yet they are some of the most judgemental people I know. Your spirituality is not the words you believe in, it is the way you act on those words. If you believe you have Jesus in your heart, as we are told to as Christians, then you must enpower yourself and trust in yourself. This is a dominant Christian belief, that we accept Him into our hearts and from then on he resides within each of us. The book says to proclaim yourself the "I Am", not because it is denouncing God or Jesus, but because if Jesus truly resides in your heart, by putting your faith in yourself and others, you are trusting in "their Jesus." Tolle states that each person should hold their own Jesus in their heart as a way to live a better life. The book uses this term since not everyone believes in the same Jesus. Some believe He was an actual man, others believe that He was more symbolic. These are both Christian beliefs. Just different ones. I just think that rushing to judgement on this matter when the great majority have not read the book is a bit premature. JMHO.

* There is no sin.



* The journey to the cross should be the last "useless journey."



* Do not make the pathetic error of "clinging to the old rugged cross."

I was responding to these points as clarified by GG. They are quotes from Helen Shucman, which have become integrated in to the "A Course in Miracles" as adopted by Oprah and Marriane Williamson.

Also, those who believe that Christ was "symbolic" are not in fact Christian in the literal sense. I don't mean to rush to judgement on the matter, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I was speaking generally on a subject that is applicable in many circumstances.

[GrannyGodley]

you must enpower yourself and trust in yourself.

We have no future without trusting in Jesus Christ as Savior

The book says to proclaim yourself the "I Am", not because it is denouncing God or Jesus, but because if Jesus truly resides in your heart, by putting your faith in yourself and others, you are trusting in "their Jesus."

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life" here He is proclaiming himself to be THE I AM. "I Am" is a name for God.

Tolle states that each person should hold their own Jesus in their heart as a way to live a better life. The book uses this term since not everyone believes in the same Jesus. Some believe He was an actual man, others believe that He was more symbolic.

There is only ONE Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God. There will be many come to proclaim themselves as Jesus, but there is only one.
Yes, there will be many differing views and interpretations of who Jesus is and what the Bible says or what other religions proclaim is the truth about Jesus, but I stand firm that Jesus is THE Christ, the Son of the Living God.

[targetaddict]

Ok, just a few things:

1. Being/doing good and following Christ seem similar but have different motivations and lead different places.

2. On the topic of context: God, the Creator of the Universe and everything in it is not jealous of you, me, and especially not of Oprah Winfrey. He owns the world and everything in it, which is way more than Oprah Winfrey owns. He is a jealous God, however, because he loves you, me, and even Oprah Winfrey. In fact, He's 100% crazy about all of us and He is very jealous of anything we allow to take priority in our lives over Him. So, it would seem that Oprah Winfrey didn't quite grasp the idea of a jealous God. Oops!

3. While it's important to be tolerant of other's beliefs, most faiths find it inherently wrong/sinful to be accepting and "open minded" with regard to other's beliefs.

4. In Christianity, you are either hot or cold. You cannot be lukewarm.

I really appreciate posh, GG, and the others who have stood up for our Christian beliefs. I respect those who have other beliefs as well.

[poshpoodle]

Originally Posted by philomena83

* There is no sin.



* The journey to the cross should be the last "useless journey."



* Do not make the pathetic error of "clinging to the old rugged cross."

I was responding to these points as clarified by GG. They are quotes from Helen Shucman, which have become integrated in to the "A Course in Miracles" as adopted by Oprah and Marriane Williamson.

Also, those who believe that Christ was "symbolic" are not in fact Christian in the literal sense. I don't mean to rush to judgement on the matter, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I was speaking generally on a subject that is applicable in many circumstances.

This is what I am basing my reactions on too- no I have not read the book, but do not intend to. A true Christian can be pursuaded too- we are human, I do not want the chance to possibly be pursuaded or have things that I do not believe in enter my mind by reading something that I have heard promotes things against Jesus Christ. Again this is just my stand- and something I personally feel very strongly about...It is not about me judging others that are not believers of Jesus Christ- I feel like I am not a very judgemental person- I just choose not to support Oprah because I feel that it will also be promoting her beliefin the book- which I do nto agree in personally.

[bette]

I never said don't trust in Jesus. If He is in your heart, by trusting in yourself you are trusting in Him. "I Am " in the book refers to anyone's God, not just Christian's. Yes, He is the I Am, but to a Muslim Allah is, to others their own God is the I Am. The book just doesn't want to appeal to only Christians. And I agree that there is only one Jesus, but each person interprets Him in their own way. The book says that whoever YOU believe Jesus to be, hold Him in your heart as a guide and trust that to lead you to the right way.

Man, I love conversations like this. I am very happy that we can all express our differing views and talk calmly and in a civil manner. When you have no one to tal;k to all day over 3 feet high, real intellectual conversation is so fabulous!!