[kdines]

I'm in the market for a new car seat for my 5 month old son so I've been doing a lot of research. I also have a 2 year old son so this is my second time around with this. I was so confused about what to buy but I've come across a website that really helped me. We were contemplating buying a new seat for our older son (and giving his to the baby) but I didn't know what to buy for him. I was thinking about purchasing a booster seat because they were cheaper than the other style. So glad I didn't buy one!

I'm sure some of you have heard about this little boy, Kyle Miller, and his family. If not, watch their video on YouTube.com. It'll totally convince you that you need to buy a seat with 5 point harness and holds a child up to 80 lbs.

YouTube - Importance of a 5-Point Harness Carseat

Also take a look at their website, it's absolutely heart-breaking but so helpful. I didn't want to spend $250 on a car seat but after hearing this family's story I won't think twice about it. Absolutely worth every penny...

Kyle David Miller Foundation

[broken_angel50423]

Wow. Thanks for posting this. Made me think twice...think I will look into one of those seats.

[LyndaSLP]

Please, please, please keep your babies in the 5 pt harnesses for as long as possible.

I am a certified child passenger safety tech -- I do not ever advise putting a 2 yr old in a booster seat.

Please feel free to pick my brain on the topic.

Oh...and you do NOT have to pay $250 for a carseat to have a good one. I know the ones my son had were in the $100-$125 range.

[hghent]

WOW!! We are in the same situation! My little one is growing out of his car seat and we were considering getting our oldest a booster seat. He is over 3 years old. Not anymore!! THANK YOU!!

[LyndaSLP]

Ok... I had to come back to this post after watching the U-tube video.

I need to clarify some mis-information on that video.

First, even if Kyle had been in a 5 pt harness, he would not have walked away from that accident as his sister did. The fault was NOT in the booster seat. The fault was in the seatbelt. The seatbelt came unlatched. If he had been in a 5pt harness, installed via the seatbelt, the seatbelt still would've come undone and flung him in his seat. Injuries definitely would've occurred. Death still might have occurred.

Second, I have to chuckle at this promotion of using a 5 pt harness -- mainly b/c the photo that shows the 6 yr old (in the $200+ carseat that has a 5pt harness with a weight limit of 80lbs)well, her harness isn't tight enough. She possibly will be thrown from the carseat itself in a similar accident b/c her harness is not tight enough.

Third, use of LATCH (lower anchors & tethers) is questionable for children over 40-50 lbs. There are questions about the lower anchors strength limits. Thus, the video/family is recommending that we all keep our kids in a 5 pt harness until 80lbs AND that we make sure we can install that carseat via the lower anchors. And they even recommend the Britax Regent. YET, Britax specifically advises the following: (I have copied and pasted this from the Britax Regent manual)

Originally Posted by Britax

Use vehicle belt (not LATCH connectors) for installations with children weighing more than 48 pounds (21 kg). Refer to the vehicle owner’s manual or contact the vehicle manufacturer for the maximum weight rating for their lower anchors. Unless specified otherwise by the vehicle manufacturer, assume a 48-pound child is the vehicle LATCH anchor limit.

Fourth, seatbelts & booster seats & carseats are not the end-all, be-all people! If you are sitting still and a semi-truck plows into you doing 50+ mph, you will be lucky to survive. REGARDLESS of how you are or are not strapped into the car. Some accidents are just un-survivable. That's the bottom line. This family only describes the other driver as incompetent and having run a red light. My question: what type vehicle? Semi truck? Pick up truck? Suburban? VW bug?

Finally, what a great way to scare people!! Esp those that do not have lower anchors in their car, thus can only use a seatbelt to install their 5 pt harness carseats.

Please don't take the above as lack of sympathy and pain for the family. I cried upon seeing the video, then watched it a 2nd time b/c their information didn't sit right with me as a CPS tech.

The best thing to do when buying carseats and/or booster seats for your chlid is to educate yourself on what will fit your car and what will fit your child and what will fit your wallet.

[lpeacock]

Thank you for all the info Lynda. I have seen that video before.
So my question is still this: how old & wt should a child be for a booster seat? At 80 lbs I would think they wouldn't even need a booster seat??

[LyndaSLP]

Originally Posted by lpeacock

Thank you for all the info Lynda. I have seen that video before.
So my question is still this: how old & wt should a child be for a booster seat? At 80 lbs I would think they wouldn't even need a booster seat??

The best practice = keeping your child in something until 8 or 80lbs. "Something" = 5pt harness OR booster seat.

Child passenger laws vary from state to state, but the best practice is what I stated just above. Just b/c your state says "a child can ride in a regular seatbelt at 6 yrs old" does not mean that is the safest practice for a child.

Car seatbelts are made for 80lb adults. They are crash tested on 80lb and larger adult dummies.

Deciding when to move to a booster? I would at least try and wait until your child is 4 yrs old. Now, boosters will state "good at 30 lbs" and I know many 3 yr olds who are 30 lbs. However, I think 3 yr olds are still learning self-control -- so why give them one more thing (the seatbelt) for them to try and play with?

[kdines]

Originally Posted by LyndaSLP

Please, please, please keep your babies in the 5 pt harnesses for as long as possible.

I am a certified child passenger safety tech -- I do not ever advise putting a 2 yr old in a booster seat.

Please feel free to pick my brain on the topic.

Oh...and you do NOT have to pay $250 for a carseat to have a good one. I know the ones my son had were in the $100-$125 range.

Thanks for your input!

I was confused about what to buy! The market is full of so many options and I don't think it's very easy to figure it out without spending some time studying it. I wasn't going to put my 2 year old in a reg booster seat, I was speaking of one of the high back booster seats, which I'm not sure if that is even appropriate or not.

My point was that there is only a couple car seats on the market that are 5 pt harness that go up to 80 lbs. I forgot that every state has diff laws re poundage and age. I live in IL where the law is 8 years old and 80 pounds and has to be a certain height. I'm buying that one because I'm not buying yet another seat down the road for my oldest. He'll be lucky if he's 80 lbs by the time he's in high school!!!

[kdines]

I think the best information to take from all of this is the 5 pt harness is the best no matter how your seat is installed, seatbelts or latch.
Here's a bit that I found about the 5 pt harness:

When used correctly, 5-point harness car seats provide significant safety advantages over securing your child in a booster seat using the adult seatbelt.

* The crash forces are spread over the skeletal body
over five points rather than three.

* The crash forces are spread to the strongest parts
of the child's body.

* Forward head excursion (the distance the head is
thrown forward) are lessened.

* The child is secured in the correct seating position rather
than being able to wiggle around, lean forward etc.


I agree that no matter what seat or how it's installed is 100% safe. But buying the proper seat for your child and vehicle and having it properly installed are very important and people need to educate themselves about it. Myself included!

[LyndaSLP]

kdines -- I wouldn't put a 2 yr old in a high back booster seat! I would buy a seat that can be both a 5pt harness AND a high back booster. (That may be what you are talking about). If it is a high back booster ONLY, I advise against it. Keep that 2 yr old in a 5 pt harness!!

The type of seats are confusing.

You have the following:

• an infant carrier (usually only good up to 20-22 lbs, but some of the newer models are up to 30lbs; is rear facing ONLY)
• a convertible car seat w/o the booster option (this seat can be rear facing OR forward facing depending on the needs of your child; but once your child outgrows the harness, it can NOT be turned into a booster seat)
• a convertible car seat w/ the booster option (same as one above; except when your child outgrows the harness, it CAN be turned into a booster seat)
• a forward facing carseat usually w/ booster option (this seat can ONLY be forward facing and when your child outgrows the harness, can USUALLY be turned into a booster seat)
• a high back booster (this is ONLY a booster seat... has a back to it in order to provide head protection for your child... must be used with a shoulder-lap belt)
• a backless booster (this is ONLY a booster seat -- no back on it -- must be used with shoulder-lap belt)

Basically, any seat can be put in one of the above categories.

Here are some good sites for information regarding carseats:

Car Seat Basics - Selection and Use

U.S. Department of Transportation - NHTSA - One Minute Safety Seat Checklist - DOT HS 809 231 - May 2002

Great site by NHTSA rating the ease of each carseat's use (done in 2007) 2007 Child Safety Seat Ease of Use Ratings

[kdines]

I sure am! I'll never use anything but 5pt now!

[Dianaj64]

Added: November 02, 2006
From: kcmillerfamily
PLEASE READ THIS AFTER YOU WATCH THE VIDEO...
It has recently come to my attention that there is another seat besides the Britax Regent (that I mention in the video) that will also hold a child in a 5-point harness up to 80 pounds. It is called the Radian80 made by Sunshine Kids and can be found here:
Sunshine Kids Juvenile Products...

Also, 95% of all children's car seats are incorrectly used or installed. To find a location to get your carseat installation inspected, go to:
Home | SeatCheck.org OR CPS Certification: Home and click on "Find a Technician" on the right.

**********NEWS************

We have begun a non-profit foundation recently in honor and memory of Kyle. (please view our new video on YouTube.) You can find the webpage here - Kyle David Miller Foundation
Our mission is to keep children in a 5pt safety harness up to 80lbs - we are accepting applications from families who cannot afford to purchase these car seats and are supplying those seats through the tax-free donations you can make through the site. We also have car seat safety information posted and will answer any question you have on car seat safety through the contact webpage. Please visit the site and help keep as many children safe as we can.

Video Info:
My son was killed in a car accident last year because a senile, 78 year old woman ran a red light and hit us causing us to flip into a ditch. Kyle's seatbelt came unlatched during the roll and he was ejected. His seatbelt was later examined by several experts who determined it was faulty and told me that seatbelts regularly fail, especially in roll over accidents. I had no idea that seatbelts could fail and think that this is something everyone should be made aware of. The government also needs to be more strict about making sure the people they issue licenses to are fit to drive...
In Loving Memory of
Kyle David Miller
3/13/02 - 5/29/05 (less)

[CM_ANGEL]

My son is 4 and a half and 31 pounds. I do not plan on putting him in a booster seat for awhile. He doesn't want one anyways, he loves his car seat. He fits in it perfectly.

[CokeBaby]

My DS is 3 1/2 and is and will be in his 5 pt. car seat.We go and have the local state troopers check and or install each car seat/booster seat that our child/children will be in.Our truck has the latch system installed in it so our child/children our secured in the truck but like lynda said if we are hit by a semi we will probably all die anyways but if we get in an accident with a VW bug we will be just fine.
My 2 DDs were in a very bad accident back in 1995 a large truck ran a stop sign and plowed into them and my youngest was in her proper car seat and had very minor injurys,my oldest was in the front seat with no car seat and was sent into the windshield head first.She suffered sever head and brain trama and is now a TBI patient with permanet plates in her face.
Just wanted to state I was not in the car I was at college and my girls were with their father(a complete moron!!)
The doctors said that if she would have been in the proper car seat she would have probably walked away with very minor injurys like her sister.
I agree car seats save lives but they must also be installed properly to really protect our children!
We have car seat saftey checks in our area - check your area to see if they have one just to make sure you installed the car seat/booster seat properly and have the right one for your child!

[broken_angel50423]

Ok, so what would be the best seat for an almost 3 year old that IS 40lbs? She has almost grown out of her carseat now (w/booster option) and I am scared now to make the switch.

[kdines]

You can buy seats that are 5 pt harnesses (that's the important part) that go up to 65 or 80 lbs. There is one that goes up to 65 lbs that is around $100. It's a Safety 1st Apex. Here's a link if you would like to look at it. I've seen it cheaper than this but not sure which website it was.


Target : Safety 1st Apex 65 Booster Car Seat - Blue

I think I am going to buy the Sunshine Kids Radian 80. This is the cheapest I've found it.
Sunshine Kids Radian 80 convertible car seat - Customer Reviews & Free Shipping!

[broken_angel50423]

Originally Posted by kdines

You can buy seats that are 5 pt harnesses (that's the important part) that go up to 65 or 80 lbs. There is one that goes up to 65 lbs that is around $100. It's a Safety 1st Apex. Here's a link if you would like to look at it. I've seen it cheaper than this but not sure which website it was.


Target : Safety 1st Apex 65 Booster Car Seat - Blue

I think I am going to buy the Sunshine Kids Radian 80. This is the cheapest I've found it.
Sunshine Kids Radian 80 convertible car seat - Customer Reviews & Free Shipping!

Thanks for the recommendatiion. I will take a look at it.

[wannasavemoney]

some good information on here wanted to get it passed around again